This transcript was generated from the episode’s YouTube captions and lightly edited for readability: filler words and the mid-show announcements have been removed. It may still contain transcription errors.

Hello friends, welcome to The Case for Life podcast, where we equip you to defend your biblical, pro-life worldview efficiently and with Grace and Truth. I want to remind you that Life Training Institute is the sponsor of this show and you can visit us at prolifetraining.com to get resources to help you or book one of our speakers. We’d love to work with you helping equip others. Today is a fun day. I actually get to bring a friend on that’s known me for at least 42 years, I guess.

If you need dirt on me, Rick Allen, my guest is your guy. He’s got a lot of decades behind me, on this, and we have been friends since going back to our College days, and I wanted to bring Rick on for a number of reasons. But first a little background on Rick. If you don’t know of him already, he has been a faculty member at Li Liberty Christian School in Dallas. Right, Rick? Yeah, in orgy, but northern Dallas show Y, where he has been a faculty member in the Bible department and Christian worldview.

I think your latest title was: you’re an instructor in biblical Humanities and doctrines, have I got that right? Yes, great, and you’re also the author of a book. Who do you say that I am comparing your Jesus to the Christ of the Bible, a book which I have read and it’s a. It’s a bit of a wakeup call to a lot of us who think we’ve constructed Jesus according to our own thoughts and desires. And I wanted to bring you on, Rick, because you have worked more than anybody I know, with students in the classroom, interacting with them informally in small group settings where you really get a chance to learn what they’re thinking, what worldviews they’re bringing to the table, and I wanted to just, bring you on to talk about that.

And the first thing I want to ask you is this: we hear over and over again that high school students in particular are not built of the kind of stuff where they can handle deep intellectual challenges. I looked at one of the syllabuses for one of your Bible courses is it was graduate level stuff. I mean, are you overreaching or are evangelicals underselling our kids? Oh yeah, we’re underselling our kids. I think the reason that people feel that way and it’s not irrational is that the landscape that we have going on right now is it is fairly ugly, especially the last 10 years, and for an educator, you have to be aware of that landscape.

At the same time, as an educator, you have to believe that a student will rise to the level that you ask them to rise with your help. But lowering the bar has never been a good part of any effective Education ever. Certainly In Our lifetime. But let me, if you mind don’t mind, I want to paain a little picture of that landscape so you understand how difficult it is. The first thing and you know this well, this is true for anybody who communicates for a living is that you have the.

The formula is: a free will fallible human is going to teach a free will fallible human. Okay, just that formula alone is fraught with problems. And if you add to that, especially the last 10 or 15 years, the, what I would say is the dismantling of objective truth and reality which I know is such a part of your ministry and certainly a deep root of the prpe argument, that isn’t just waning, that’s being deconstructed. Thanks to postmodernism and many other things.

When you add to that, especially for Millennials, a culture of fear. Remember, they came into this world with the colon Bine Massacre and then 911, and then the Great Recession and than Co. So they and their parents are steeped in fear. And I’m leading to a point here of what is really critical, what we’re doing. And then the very real kind a perception, very real diminishing of the ability to hold attention, to process information, to apply. It has dropped precipitously over the last 10 years.

So any educator or Pastor or anyone who communicates, looks at that landscape and thinks, yeah, what’s the point? What I have learned is that doesn’t change the basic formula of Education, which is, if I can get a student to trust me, I can lead them to the highest mounties, and that’s the success that I have found, in spite of the landscape that we see. Well, I have seen from your syllabus and knowing you personally, you will take students, you’ll have them read people like KK Gard.

You’ll have them read people like Paul tillich. You’ll have them read the best the other side has and your students can take it. What? What have you found? The parents reaction is when they get a low to your syllabus. What do they say? Well, it’s interesting. Again, you have to remember that Millennials are now the parot, yeah, and so I can’t remember the comedian that said this but the Millennials, basically, when they were born, they were dipped in Purell, everything was in protect mode, and even Christian parents have a hard time allowing their babies, their kiddos, to fail, yeah.

So what I have to do, as any good educator does, is I have to build trust with the parents and with the students to say that I want your student to debate me, I want them to disagree with me. I’m going to do it with respect. I’m going to teach them how to do this so they, when they go to college which they do they out debate their professors, they out debate other students. It’s kind of fun to watch, yeah, but there has to be that place of give and take.

For someone to do that, they have to be a very, very strong educator. They can’t. They have to know they’re chopped, but they have to have the ability socratically to say whether it’s devil’s advocacy or whatever, to say: tell me why you believe the pro-choice perspective. Explain that to me. Don’t just throw out a bumper sticker. Explain it to me. Read it, study it. And that what I have found is that when students believe you respect their intelligence, that you’re not dumbing them down and that they’re, it’s okay for them to share an opinion, as long as it’s done in, you know, with rationality.

I’m telling you, I can lead them into places they’ve never been before. Even if we end up disagreeing, at least they’ve come to a place of believing there’s objective truth and reality. That rationality is so important. But what I have found over the course of now geez, 45 years of teaching the Bible and other courses is precisely what you said. That is, I don’t look at a class and say, oh, because her attention span is 70 seconds as opposed to 12 minutes when I was in high school in the 70s.

Yeah, that doesn’t change anything, it doesn’t, right I? I just have to find a more creative way to reach their heart. Yeah, I remember doing a presentation to a church youth group up in Canada and the youth pastor told me: I want you to make your talk in 30 different segments. That will be roughly 45 seconds each, and he had his students on their phones texting in stuff, and it wasn’t even questions, it was: what do you feel about what was just said?

Could you address how education has changed in a culture where feelings are the self identifying Factor? What Carl Truman points out as this idea that the self is defined by Fe feelings. How, what he calls the rise and Triumph, the modern self. What? What do you have to overcome in a student to bring them to the point where they’ll trust you to take them to the new heights? Well, it goes to the point you made and something you know that I have been, an antagonist against for, you know, almost 50 years, and that is that in Americanized Christianity, self is God.

You know, it used to be that we rejected God, and then it was we’re going to create God in our image, and now it’s we’re going to create ourselves in our image. Right, we just Gods out of the picture. What I have to do, and what I try to do, is dismantle the argument that self Reigns, that self is sufficient. I do it tenderly, but I make the point that, okay, if self is in control and self is god, let’s look at that, let’s see how well you’re doing with that, at the very least to get them to a point where they stop and say, hm, maybe I need to rethink some aspects of this.

As soon as that door opens, I rush in with truth. Yeah, yep. What have been some of the most effective ways of knocking students off the self perch reality. So I know that that sounds simplistic, but I any good educator does this I use myself as an example. Often, you know, as a human being, I have tried to make self work, and it doesn’t take much. And I have to say, parenthetically, that I am so grateful I wasn’t raised in a Christian home.

I’m not suggesting it’s terrible if you were, but I was a child of the 60s, you know, and with alcoholic parrots, teenage parrots, I tasted what self can’t do. And so when I speak that language to students, boy, they listen, see, they know that I have tried all of those things and they trust my intellect but, more importantly, they trust my empathy. So when they come to me with something they’re struggling with, I don’t care what it is, I don’t look them sideway and I’m sideways, I, my heart breaks for them and I said that’s proof that self is not sufficient.

And I’m telling you, as much as I have struggled with some of the things in the landscape, it almost always goes back to that revelation, that light. That’s what all educators are about, right, the light going on, yep. Once that light begins to just slowly warm, I know that, for lack of better terms, I’ve got them, I’ve got their heart and then it’s gently leading them from there. To what extent have you found that the training you’re given them inoculates them against deconstruction that they’re being confronted with on the internet, which is largely a media driven thing?

What has your kind of teaching done to fortify them against that? Well, as you pointed out earlier, they read marks and Hegel and they read transcripts from liberal media pundit and what I teach them to do is to look for the obvious. Me is what might seem like a strange example, this, an entire section I do in my subject on worldview, on cosmology. It’s 12 weeks and I don’t even quote scripture until the last week. I deal strictly with science and I showed up.

How many times does it say in all of these research articles, possibly, maybe right, as soon as they read that, they start to realize: wait a minute. So they’re not even asserting established truth. They’re saying it could be, it’s possible, and that’s one of the techniques. Yeah, what that does again, my whole premise in Ministry, I think, in almost everything I do is I try to get people to stop. Just, would you just stop for a moment and take a breath and think: is it possible?

There’s another perspective, right, so I could have kids in my class, I mean, really adeptly argue for Marxism. I want them to be able to do that, and because doing that, they can so easily flip the script and say: and this is why it doesn’t work, because I know it so well here, yeah, I think what you’re doing is where, with deconstruction, the goal is to tear down someone’s belief and replace it with a system totally devoid of scripture and the god of the Bible. You’re helping them tear down bad thinking and replace it with good thinking grounded in a Christian worldview.

I know that, yeah, go ahead. I was just say that that pretty much na it. The last 3 years at liberty I had since retired from liberty and doing my online thing, but the last three years I was a teacher of teachers, was an educator of Educators. I was teaching them. How do you do this? How do you do critical thinking? Yeah, typical worldview. And you just brought up an important point. The goal of education is not content if thinking. Yeah, I’m teaching them how to think and you can do that in any subject: the biblical worldview.

The last few years, I developed toolkits for every subject, for every grade where a teacher who taught whatever could read this toolkit and say, oh my gosh, even an AP Calculus I can teach from a biblical worldview and not say, well, God made numbers or no, no, no, if you’re intentional in your education, it’s everything’s sh game, and when it starts to blend together, that’s when students think it’s real. Let me give one more quick example. In My Philosophy course, after I introduced myself and some of the expectations and I treat them like adults I really do.

They’re 17, 18 year olds, like I’m going to treat you, like you’re going to be in college the very first image they see is the quadratic equation. That’s the first image they see in My Philosophy course, for several reasons, but one of them is I want to break that barrier that, oh, that’s the Bible or oh, that’s for man, and even know it’s for everything. Yeah, and that’s where I land most of the time. Yeah, you know, it’s one of the things I’ve done with students.

That’s helped, and I’m wondering if you’ve had the same experience when I can explain to them and show them that physicalism as an epistemology is false. It opens a lot of doors, you know, and when I point out, for example, that science presupposes philosophy, for example, you have to assume that your mind can make accurate contact with the outside world. That’s a philos philosophical idea, not an empirical one. When I point out that they have to assume that they intell there are intelligible answers to their questions, that’s a philosophical concept.

If philosophy is real and knowable, physicalism is false. Therefore, naturalism is false, because the epistemology of naturalism is, of course, scientism, right, and that what I have found over the last 10 years is a much stronger resistance to logic than I saw the previous, you know, 20, 30 years. So it takes a little bit more unwinding about, not?? I then a quick example on the cosmology unit. I ask a simple question: can you prove empirically there was, there was a black hole, a singularity?

Can you prove that empirically? Of course the answer is no. Or can you prove the existence of abiogenesis? No, but you still believe it, right? So how is that in comparison? And typically a student will say: we can’t prove there’s a God. Exactly that’s where we’re going to begin to your point. It has to begin in that substrate. The philosophy, the on whether it’s epistemology, ontology, which is a huge part of what I do with, certainly with worldview, is getting kids to stop and realize.

You know, I want them to get uncomfortable. I want them to get uncomfortable with the, with the reasoning that they’ve been using for those first 17 years and really with their heads, which is where some parents don’t, some parents don’t like that. But I always tell the parents: look, there’s an endgame here they going to be. I tell the students in every course: you’re going to come out of here well equipped, well informed and compassionate. Well, I have to tell you, Rick, I enjoy destroying their thinking too, because when I show up at Summit, AT Christian worldview conferences, I assume the Persona of Dr Zeke diversity, a pro-abortion philos, and I, Rick, I destroy their pro-life views.

They are left with nothing and they’re literally begging for mercy by the time I get done with them and I have found this a very effective way to inoculate them against what they’re going to get hit with when they hit that secular University campus. We got to move way Beyond this idea that we can just say, hey, abortion is wrong because the Bible says so or the church says so. The culture our kids are stepping into is a culture that doesn’t believe religious truth.

Claims count as real knowledge and they also, as you mentioned a moment ago. You mentioned that it’s getting harder to start with logic because people are more opposed to it today. I also think that has something to do with the woke world view that views rationality as a tool of oppression and that it’s lived experience that is Truth. You’re are no facts, are no longer stubborn things, they’re evil things. They’re evil things. Yeah, they encroach. I just I just set up a video on one of my Tik Tok videos of encounter I had in the gym.

The gym is my home away from home and I had a conversation with a woman. She brought it up abortion. So we talked for a while. It’s a rather cordial conversation. I, Shar, I did what I do and, she looked me Square in the eye and said: okay, this is what you need me to say. Yes, I want the freedom to kill my own child in my womb. You can go to hell. And she walked away in the face of not just facts but love and concern.

You know for situation. So there is a little bit more complexity here because of the ideology that’s prevailing these days, but again, I have found a true educator. Does not resign, they don’t give up, they just find different pedagogies, they just find different ways to reach that. And we can always look back and say: wait a minute. This isn’t the first time in history that we’ve been in the midst of a wicked culture right, the Roman culture alone, I mean, think of the early Church in that, in that, you know, construct.

The other thing is that I know you’ll agree with, and I’ve shared this with Educators for years: if you simply talk and test if that’s your role, the teacher, you’re going nowhere. Yeah, that that’s that is never going to work. As an educator, your goal is to find whatever means possible to get them to stop and rethink. This is your goal, and if you can’t do that, you have to ask yourself the question: is it because I’m not skilled in it or because I’m not an educator?

That’s a hard decision. Yep, well, one of the things I think of biblically is the example of the prophet Jeremiah. God told him to stand in the middle of the city square and testify against child sacrifice and then gave him this wonderful job description: nobody is going to listen to you, but that did not relieve Jeremiah of testifying to the truth. Yeah, I think I. I when the Educators get discouraged, and particularly and this, by the way, is true of all Educators my brother, my younger, I have one sibling.

He’s been a master teacher in California for 35 years in public schools. He’s not a Christian. He’s retiring early because he cannot be the educator that he is anymore, because all the landscape I describ and you add to that the pronouns and all, yeah and it’s. It’s sad to me because Educators by nature actually do care about people, whether they’re Christians or not. When they can’t, when they can’t offer that or when they’re prohibited to do that, all of these other things about logic and thinking it just go out the window because there’s no connection to humanity anymore.

And I think that when Educators get discouraged, I always remind them: look that, as you said, we don’t stop sharing the truth and love. Right, Romans 8:28: all things work together for good. We don’t stop. Now you’ve been a pastor, so you are a unique blend here. You bring both the pastoral side and the academic side together. And what you do, what are some pastoral tips that apologist should probably start working into their way of doing their work, cuz there are a lot of apologists out there and it’s tempting to fall into the trap of: hey, I’m like a western gunfighter, I’m just going to shoot down arguments here, but there is a real pastoral side to changing minds.

I wonder if you might say something about what you’ve learned about that. Well, I learned it the hard way, I learned it by making mistakes as a young Pastor gosh. The first thing is that we serve an audience of one. If we don’t land on the, on that foundation that we serve an audience of one, we’re going to get discouraged and distracted and do all sorts of dumb things. The second thing is believing that the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword.

And what we see today, particularly in the last 40 years in the west, is a Detachment from the word of God. We’ve definitely moved into the sound bite, t-shirt, emblem, bumper, sticker, statements, that hipster Pastor. The list goes on and it’s a spectator sport. And so I tell pastors: audience of one, teach the word, believe what the word, the power of the word as it says it has. But the other thing and I do this in classrooms as well is you also have to teach them to be Berean, to break up the spectator mode.

So if the Berean could receive, arguably, one of the best Bible teachers in the world, the Apostle Paul, receive his teachings with joy and then go back and compare his teaching to scripture. That’s an important part of the pastoral aspect of it, because I would tell my congregation: if you’re walking out of services saying Pastor Rick said I’m not doing my job and neither are you should be walking out of our gathering saying the word of God says yep, and there’s just too much cult to personality right now and so it’s audience of one. Trust the word of God and teach people how to be bereans and watch that congregation begin to thrive.

Yeah, spot on. One of the ways I think that you’ve been effective, at least for me, something I’ve heard you say you train your students to respond rather than react. Could you unpack that a little bit for our listeners? Well, I first thing I do is I tell them it’s perfectly normal as a human being to react. So this is a discipline, it’s a self-discipline issue. The way that you change, that is you, is the essential. 3 second rule: if somebody saids something to you take a breath and you try to figure out what are they actually saying, and I go over this at nauseum a thousand different ways.

What was Mark saying? Why did he come to that place? When his daddy moved him from, you know, the University of Berlin to University of bond? Because he was a partyer, he was a knucklehead, and they had that revelation that the workers were being mistreated. Okay, what was he saying? So a lot of it is that, and then the second part of is and the is the hard part for all this is how not to personalize it, that the words are going past you and I’m still learning that.

There are things that people say online that are like whoa ouch, that, yeah, that didn’t feel good, but I’m not, you’re not the enemy. Their fear is focused on something else. And if I can sidestep that long enough, do the very thing I’m teaching the students to do. I might find that one key that says in my head: I know where you’re coming from. You had a neglecting, yet had a neglectful Dad. I know where that’s coming from because I’ve counseled 300 of you, right?

So my approach now is going to be from this angle, and that that’s what I try to do: to change from reaction to response. The other one, too. It’s just the simple one, and that is. But by the grace of God, me, come on exactly has your theology adjusted, evolved or changed to put together all these similar words over the time you’ve been teaching you and I come from a church where it was more charismatic in nature big, huge church with a great, dynamic leader who inspired us to stay out of trouble as young adults.

But what has changed in your thinking, over 40 years now, of Education, teaching, wow, well, like a good educator, I’m a lifelong learner. I’ve already learned two or three things in this conversation and I love it. I think what is, if anything is nothing has changed substantively in terms of theology. I think I’ve deepened. I have surely deepened in grace and mercy. I don’t if that’s just an age issue or if it’s just experience or what, but what I have noticed in me is I try to inject a lot less of me.

There’s a, there’s a need for me to not be about me. Now. That’s hard because my testimony is powerful, our stories are powerful, so I’m not suggesting that we toss them, but being careful to keep the light on Jesus, not my Ministry, my books, my art, but that and that’s. I think I’m on still on that learning curve right now, you and me both. I’ll tell you. I’ve been looking at a thread of comments I’ve been dealing with on our one of the ads we ran for a course I teach and it’s so interesting because not one pro-abortion responder enjoins the argument at all.

100% of them is saying: hey, you’re just an awful evil person, go burn. And to hold back and measure your response in that kind of environment is difficult because they aren’t bringing anything to the table. It’s the old thing they teach you in law school: when you have the facts, pound the facts. When you don’t pound the table and do it loudly, well, my ears are ringing from a lot of wood being pounded, because this is what they’re doing. They don’t have any arguments and I think our students what you just said is so vital that 3 second rule, teaching them to sidestep the personal side of it and try to get behind that.

I mean that’s something I need to constantly remind myself of because I can be that snarky guy. Well, let’s I mean let’s face a simple fact, and that is the front on which you fight is vulnerable. Yeah, and it has that kind of reflexive response. I just got it on my YouTube channel: a couple people like you sidestepped my argument, you completely dismantled anything and just said I’m a terrible person. But what I have learned and I might be sounding idealistic here, but those who have ears to hear will hear right, and it may be one or 20 or 200 times that they react, but there’s something going on in their heart and spirit and our job is to plant and to water.

We get to see the fruit, it’s great. We get the Harvest great. But I’m convinced that even the hardest of hearts, of which I was one before I got saved man, there’s nothing that the truth of God’s word, the Holy Spirit, cannot, break through now. Yes, as we see in scripture, in the end times people will just not be logical, they will not be right. But to for you and, I think, for people that serve with you in this ministry around the world, you have, there’s a specific calling.

All of us are called to reach the lost, but then there’s also specific callings that say: but I’m going to lead an army into the darkness, the spiritual darkness, to save people, save unborn people and save others. That’s a high calling and, as you know, a costly one it is. But I got to tell you, brother, just for the sake of our audience to know a little of our history. You were the first Pastor that gave me a pulpit to do a pro-life sermon in.

That was going back to 1991, and I don’t know if you remember this, but I do. Short shortly after that, yeah, because maybe your congregation rebelled against you. I don’t know, who was that guy you had, but I was as green as green could be. I was a nobody. Nobody knew me from Bob. I was not at all known in the pro life movement. And you took me to lunch and you said: I’m going to tell you something about what I believe is going to be true of your life.

And here’s what you said: you’re going to write a book, you’re going to have a platform with youth. You even looked at me and said you fear that your time with youth is ending because your youth pastor days are over and it’s only going to begin. And here I am at age 63 talking to students all over the place and funny thing is, Rick, I feel like I’m getting better the older I get. But you were the guy that sat me down and said: brother, I don’t care what you might be discouraged about right now.

This is what’s going to happen in your life and I believe God’s going to do this work in you and it will be his work. He will build that platform for you. And the way you specifically laid out the way it would happen: you’ll talk to leaders, you’re going to write a book, you’re going to still be talking to students for decades. I mean all be all that has happened. I almost you know, salute you as prophet Rick, but I know you would never accept that title.

But very encouraging to me and this gets to something I want to close us out with there is a real need for us to have intellectual mentors and intellectual friendships that spur us on to living biblically grounded discipleship lives, loving God with our minds, and I think there’s a sense in Christendom that experiential things, Trump, anything intellectual could you address that a little? A little bit. Yeah, I would address it personally as an educator, and that is the is showing people the value of learning, because there is a reflexive defensiveness in us, because when somebody brings up something that challenges us we immediately sense that they’re telling us we’re stupid or we’re wrong.

Would had St that. But you said something really important I want to emphasize to conclude, and that is the relational part of it’s building relationship with people so that someone could come along and say, Rick, I? I think you need to rethink that. And you know who the two best are in my life: my sons. It’s the greatest joy in the world to have my boys be the ones that will when necessary. They’re way smarter than me, they’re better writers, they’re better Educators, way more creative, and they’re the ones that’ll say, Dad.

I wonder if, because they know I value that. So it’s relationship, it’s empathy, it’s crying with those who cry, weep with those who weep. And as long as we do that, I think there’s tremendous opportunity to build those mentorship relationships. I know you and I believe in them. We were raised at them, at the church on the way, which are still are mentors. Yep, we are blessed well if we continue to give, don’t we? And I will say, lastly, not that we’re in the flattering podcast here, but so much of what I’ve taught over the years comes from what I’ve learned from you, whether it’s in the pulpit or the classroom just knowing how to effectively communicate truth and love.

I needed somebody that had gone further down the road than I had to learn. Okay, that’s a better way to do it, and so thank you for that. I we’ve got a lot more years to go. I think we do keep going. Thank you for your encouragement. If you could give one last parting thing here. Sometimes in pro-life circles I encounter pro-lifers who have never been exposed to the need for a biblical worldview. They just want to State their position and not explore why they need to ground it in something deeper.

What might you say to that pro-lifer watching today who thinks I don’t need to ground my pro-life view in any kind of larger worldview structure? I think as Christians, we have a tremendous advantage: we have the intellectual resources to ground our worldview. Talk a little bit about the importance of grounding what you believe on abortion in a larger worldview frame. Well, that I think I could it would fill in the blank on that and that is God’s eyes, it? In order for us to have God’s eyes, you have to have a biblical worldview.

You have to see things as he sees them. Y that way, our motivation isn’t simply to win arguments that’s a part of the process, as it were, but it’s seeing things from his perspective, which is that double-edged sword of building both empathy and humility. That then magnifies the impact of our skill set. That’s what I just thought. One last thing I got to ask you: I have been very profoundly discouraged by couples even at our church and other places where we interact with fellow Christians who don’t even think twice about sending their kids off to college, to the most secular place that will talk them out of what they believe and they’re so excited that their kid got a ride, a full ride, to Harvard, and I’m thinking the most important thing is your kid going to heaven.

But I am very concerned that Christian parents are too flippant in looking at, you know, secular options for secondary education. You are seeing these kids firsthand come out of the best environment. What would you say to student, or I should say to parents, about how they ought to approach where their kids go to college? Don’t make assumptions. Whether it’s well, survived College, I survived being in a ferity or a sority, but it’s. That’s a terrible argument, not the least of which involves an ungodly amount of money to do that, which is a whole another podcast, but it’s telling parents you need to be very, very careful here, because your assumption is that you survive, they’ve survived.

Secondly, you assume it’s the same kind of environment that you in. That’s a bad assumption, yeah. Thirdly, without training, without skill set, they will get destroyed, their faith will be decimated. And I’ve I kind of felt at times I was the only one helping them. That’s not true, but I felt that isolation sometimes until I started to work with other Educators from prek q12 and say, look, we got to do a teamwork thing here. We can’t just have it happen at the end of their K through2 life.

That’s not going to work. We got to start when they’re in prek. What’s reality, what’s truth? Yeah, and so forth. And so I caution parents, of course, there a movement now, even in private Christian Schools. Dismissing College, alt together, just realizing it is just not worth it, and that’s like a whole another discussion. That well, it may be one we have one day. But I will tell you how discouraging it was for me as a parent when we sent our daughter off to a Christian college and I ended up having to join a battle fighting wokeness on campus.

Their chap, their chapel speakers were Jamar tisby, people coming in that were pedaling woke nonsense. And me and three other parents one of which was an ADF attorney Alliance defending freedom attorney, who was also an Alum of the school, and I’m telling you, the school threw everything they had at us, Rick, and then they said, okay, fine, we’ll investigate using our own board investigation. They not only validated everything we found, they found worse examples than what we found, but even still they didn’t make the changes.

And I tell parents, you have really got to do due diligence, looking into what’s going on in chapel, what’s going on in ra training, what’s going on in education and sociology departments. You got to look at these things because you can’t assume that because it’s a Christian College, you’re okay. You know it’s not going to be good if it’s a state school, but I think we need to be more careful in how we care for The Souls of our kids and sending them off to a school is just a ticket for disaster.

I can think of a family I know that their daughter came back from Thanksgiving vacation after going to a secular University. This girl was a leader in the youth group came back thoroughly woke, hostile, Tor, her parents in full deconstruction mode. Well, what happened? She went off to college. She hadn’t been equipped to withstand this stuff and she got sucked right into it. And this is what we see happening in a lot of places and it breaks my heart. But I am thankful for you fighting the good fight and congratulations on almost 50 years of training and educating students.

My friend, you have run through the tape well and you are not done. I think this is just a chapter break, and now what’s the next chapter coming up for you and I? I look forward to how we can talk about that moving forward. But, Rick Allan, thank you. Can you direct people to your website where they can find out more about you? Yeah, it’s Richard A Allen A l Len Jr. So Richard A Allen Jr.com. Everything’s there that they could ever want to know about me.

Let me just say one last thing to your point and I’ve hammered this bell for 50 years the term Christian doesn’t mean anything anymore, because it can mean anything. That’s the key to tell students and parents. Do not make that assumption. That’s a bad assumption. Yeah, great Point. Well, Rick, thank you so much. Brother, you are a friend. Love having a chance to talk to you and, we’re going to do this again. I hope so. I appreciate it, man. I love you, brother.

Love you too, brother. Thank you for joining us, and thank you, everyone for joining us. Be sure to visit our social media. Sit scottus andorf, docomo, tr.com for lifet trining institute till next time. We’ll see you then.